An Interview With Isabella Rogers-Headicar - Neurodiversity Week
Enjoy an interview with Isabella Rogers-Headicar that was conducted for neurodiversity week 2024 with Radmon and D&C!
Listen above to the audio, or read the transcript!
Georgie McColm
Hey everyone, thank you for tuning in to a very special broadcast for Neurodiversity Week, an awesome crossover between Radio Monash and DNC AKA Disabilities and Carers. I'm one of your hosts, Georgie. I'm the current president of Radio Monash and my Co host today is the current DNC office bearer, Charlotte Sutton. So I thought we would start off by giving us a small introduction into what DNC is first for those who are unfamiliar. Charlotte, do you wanna start us off by telling everybody about what DNC is?
Charlotte Sutton
Sure. Thank you so much for having us. We're super excited. We love our Radio Monash people. So disability and carers, we are an autonomous department of the MSA. We basically represent students with disabilities, chronic illness, mental health issues, those who are neurodivergent. We also represent carers or anyone else who's really just having a tough time and we sound like we might be a good fit. Don't need to be registered with DSS that is our big thing. Yeah, we're really here to advocate for students. If they're not getting the access they need. If we can provide more support. And we also do a lot of community building that's basically us.
Georgie McColm
Fantastic. And it's really exciting today because the person that we're interviewing is Isabella, who is actually a former DNC office bearer, which is really cool. So before we quickly jump into interviewing Isabella, I thought I'd just quickly encapsulate what this week is all about. So this week is all about celebrating neurodiversity and the people who identify as neurodiverse. It's a very complex issue with many key areas, but today we are focusing on the past office bearer of the DNC, Isabella, who is now up to some very cool stuff. We're going to have a bit of a chat today about her experience with being Neurodiverse and how it affects her. So to get into it, Isabella, do you want to give us a small introduction into who you are?
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Of course. Yeah hi I'm Isabella. I was a Monash student. I'm actually graduating in May. Almost there.
Georgie McColm
So exciting.
Georgie McColm
Almost there.
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Yeah, I'm neurodiverse. I have, you know, ADHD, like OCD. Anxiety. Really the whole lovely platter of all the neurodivergence . I did a degree in Biomed and just finished my honours year recently. So yeah, hopefully exciting things to come.
Georgie McColm
Very exciting, very exciting. And what are your current future plans at the moment now you've finished Biomed?
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Well, I'm actually trying to enter Med, but that's a journey. We'll see how that one goes. And in the meantime, I'm working some privately with some research I did during my honours and also hopefully doing some clinical work on the side. So we'll see how that goes.
Georgie McColm
I can imagine. Fantastic. Now it sounds like you've got a full on platter ahead of you. It's very exciting. So, how about we actually start by going back to the start a little bit? And how did you find yourself in DNC?
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Yeah, well, DNC for me, it was. I think it's earlier on than most, but I felt it was quite late. I came from high school, and anyone who's gone through the VCE curriculum experience will know that there's almost zero to well, nothing in regards to support or even acknowledgement of things, especially like ADHD. It's you know you get maybe like 10 minutes extra time but they don't, it's not really considered something that hinders you or is deserving of any kind of support, right. So that's the attitude I entered into university with. I just thought it didn't matter and it wouldn't count for anything but. It wasn't until I started to look online. I mean, I was the product of COVID Uni 2020, my first year at uni, so I tried to find communities.
Georgie McColm
Love that.
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Online and I looked into Facebook and things and I actually found the DNC Facebook around then and then I looked into how to get involved. And yeah, pretty quickly got into it, got in contact with people, tried to get my foot in the door, and I actually ran for OB initially. In 2021, I think it was fresh off the bat. I did lose that election. I was running as an independent. But then I joined the committee for that year and then everything started from there.
Georgie McColm
Very, very cool. And how did you actually find your first year as being the DNC OB? Were you overwhelmed by it? Was it very exciting for you or how did you approach that year?
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Yeah. Well, so my first year was kind of an interesting one because I. I stepped up into the role, first of all, for like half a semester, and then I was officially elected with Elena the next year. So I was actually part of the committee with Charlotte for the half of the year, when I first stepped up. And yeah, it was intimidating, I would say. But I think the biggest thing for me is I took it as a learning experience because you're kind of in your own bubble with what you know, like, I only knew my own experience, even as like someone who's neurodiverse. And I only really knew about my conditions and my particular experience and being in that role. It's about representing everyone else. And you really have to learn to look outside of yourself and what are other people's experiences and it kind of it's quite enriching because you, you realise what's different, but you also realise that a lot of people have the same experiences as you. So yeah.
Georgie McColm
Hmm. Oh. Did you find that it was a bit hard to adjust at first because I know a lot of people, it can be something where you're like, OK, well, I've had some a unique experience specific to myself and then having to take on such a large role that has a lot of diversity. You know, disability is a very broad term that encapsulates so many things. Was it overwhelming at first?
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Yeah, definitely, definitely. So I think I went into it with a lot of optimism which kind of pushed me through and a lot of passion to try and make some kind of a difference, but. I think, well, inherent to the role is that we're in that role because we have some form of disability or our carer and inherent to that is like a certain amount of challenge, right. And I I think you know some people will agree. It's like you have the passion, you have the drive. But unfortunately the essence of like ADHD and things like that is it was quite hard to balance the work and the requirements of the role which you are passionate about and your own kind of struggles at home. I guess we could phrase it. So it's kind of that was the most challenging and most overwhelming thing for me is actually getting into the role and being like, oh God, people actually are gonna like, potentially rely on me now. And I have to. I have to step up and, you know, even if I have my own struggles, I've got to somehow make this work.
Georgie McColm
I can imagine. Did you find that when you got in the role that you were really supported? Cause I know it depends for certain people. I've had some friends who are neurodiverse, who they really find their people at Uni and others who can kind of struggle to find that community. When you entered DNC, did you find that you had a lot more support?
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Yeah, I think look, it's it's a varied kind of community. I definitely found many people who had similar experiences to mine and that in itself was a great support to sort of have that reassurance. But yeah, I think look, it's come a long way the department, especially in the hands of Charlotte, of course. But you know, I think it's grown a lot. It's gained a lot more presence. I think back when I first not was elected but stepped up the department was sort of smaller and I guess you know, we’d just come out of COVID. It just wasn't really on the top of the priorities for everyone's list. And I think that did have an impact on starting out, you know, trying to get us a presence both in the eyes of, you know, MSA but also with the student body like we're here. But I think it's come a long way since then, but no, definitely the people around me and having that shared experience was really inspiring to keep going forward and definitely a support system for me.
Georgie McColm
That's really good to hear. And in comparison to what you felt at DNC, how did you actually find university with being neurodiverse and having ADHD? Did you find that to be an interesting experience? Or was DSS super supportive or I know that's a very personal question, so if you're free to answer as much as that as you want, but how did you find that experience?
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Ohh no, I mean look, I'm always willing to share. There's nothing too much behind closed doors here. No, I think that with DSS when I first started university, honestly, it was like a it was like a welcome change for me at least. Because I know that. Look, DSS, it's a complicated experience, but at least at the start for me it was a huge jump up because I went from 0 support. To what felt like to me like a lot of support, so I can't overshadow that. I think. I guess the issue with DSS that many of us face is that it it's largely run by the university and the kind of the system as it were. And oftentimes, when students have requests or needs that kind of present more of a challenge, that's where it gets difficult. If all you need is just extra time and support and that's it to stamp on the page that you know, as long as you have the means. And you know not to be underestimated, the financial means to actually get a diagnosis and things like that. But once you get to that point, you know they'll do that. It's just, you know, there's a couple of like run ins along the way that I think that I had. I was very lucky in that I had a really supportive advisor and things. And, you know, I actually did receive a lot of support along the way with certain issues and any kind of run insI had at university or disputes. But. I also did see first hand, I guess some of the I suppose some of the concerns that have been raised by other members of the Community, so I think it's a balance. There's a lot of positives that it's there, there's a lot of positives to what it can bring to students, but I think there's a lot of space for it to develop and grow over time and I do think that it does, you know, need to respond to student concerns in regards to the administration and just I guess it's flexibility, but it it it's it's challenging because as I said it is you know a direct part of Monash so. Yeah, but we do our best.
Georgie McColm
And that's all you can do sometimes and I guess for the students listening in who maybe can't afford getting a diagnosis because that's a whole nother discussion in terms of affordability and access to proper healthcare when it comes to ADHD and other neurodiverse stuff. But for the students listening who don't have a diagnosis but are still being affected, Charlotte, did you want to speak a little bit on what DNC can currently do for these students or the support network that you can provide?
Charlotte Sutton
Yeah, sure. And just want to note as well, you do not need to have a diagnosis to register with DSS. As long as you can fill in the form, it's no longer a requirement that you have a diagnosis and same thing with us, you. We don't ask for a doctor's note for you to join the community if it's something sounds like might be of interest. Come talk to us if you think well, maybe that sounds like me. I'm reading these things or and maybe I am neurodivergent. Maybe I want to explore that aspect of myself and maybe I want to kind of find a community. Come have a chat to us. We have an amazing Neurodivergent community. Yeah. Who is always, you know. Have open arms or come have a chat with us. It's OK if you're not fully there with accepting that or anything else, but yeah, you are always more than welcome.
Georgie McColm
I also want to take this opportunity to plug the DNC lounge like I've known so many people who don't know about the lounge. They're like I’m in my last year of university, how did I not know about this? Did you want to chat a little bit on the lounge as well?
Charlotte Sutton
Yes, we love our lounge. It's on the first floor of campus centre. I have just finished restocking it with snacks. And all sorts of things. We have chargers in there, we have heat packs, we have hydrolyte. If there's anything you would like, send me a message, I will get it in there. There's tea. Coffee. It's a really great space. A lot of that credit has to go to Isabella and Elena, who were last year OBs and the year before that, who spent so much time and energy on creating a really amazing space. So please come and use it. You just need your student ID to get in there. Anyone is welcome to use it, but it is a really great space.
Georgie McColm
Which is fantastic.
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
I love the good standing desk. I did want to jump in and say as well about the, DSS thing as well. I'm sure Charlotte would be willing to help out with people, but something that happened a lot, at least with me. Is that the great thing about coming to D&C is we can actually give you advice in how to approach DSS, because I think approaching DSS is such a sometimes a thing of like, you know, stress and anxiety in regards to having to sort of explain to someone why you need something or all this stuff. And definitely come through us if that's a concern for you because we've seen it all. We've seen every experience almost well, you know, can't cover everything, but we sort of know what the requirements are and we know what is usually offered and things like that. So if you do want advice on how to approach that, definitely do come to us first if you do wanna debrief before it.
Charlotte Sutton
We can also attend the meeting as a support person. That's something we've spoken to DSS about. If you're just not feeling super comfortable, we can wait outside. We can just sit there.Yeah. D&C is fully happy to support you in that process. However, is going to work best for you.
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Or just be a part of the community if you want to be. You know, whichever one fits you best.
Georgie McColm
There's plenty of vibes to go around, plenty of vibes, especially in the lounge. I am very partial to the lounge. It is very, very cool. And this is very much on the spot type of question but. How did you go about making the lounge, Isabella? Seeing how Charlotte has kind of plugged how much involvement you've had. Like, I don't know. Did you have, like, a Pinterest board? We're like, OK, here's my essentials. We need hydrolyte. Like, we need all the snacks. What was your thought process behind making the lounge as accessible as it is?
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Oh well, that was a long process. No, I mean, in terms of like hydrolyte, coffee and all that, that's kind of a tradition for the lounge that that predates my time. I mean, we've always had all the snackies in the lounge, but in terms of the way it is now, we actually had a great amount of support from MSA and a bit of an injection of funding. And we managed to get, you know, architects in and stuff. It took a while, it took several months of back and forth plans with the architects. And we were, like, constantly sending them things about, like, the heights of, like, fridges and everything. And, you know, trying to make sure that the space was accessible as possible. Ruefee and I had a good chat about what we wanted it, like, what the vision of the lounge was gonna be. And I think previously it was kind of a grey area. Was it a study space? Was it a social space, you know and and our goal was really to create something that could potentially function as both, which is why for people who want to use the lounge, check it out, there are like standing desks in a corner, kind of more tucked away. And then there's kind of a seating area on the other side. So it's designed to be a bit more flexible and I don't know if I should do a brand plug right here, but we did do a massive shop at Kmart because I kinda like Kmart. They have a lot of sensory toys and stuff and yeah, we stocked up. And yeah, that's kind of how it got to today, but it was a lot of back and forth planning. I'm just glad it worked out in the end.
Georgie McColm
Which is the main thing, and it's such a fantastic space. Like I'm sure students for many years to come way after we've all completely graduated, will enjoy using the space. But I wanted to take the time to see like in the later half of this interview, actually going over your experiences with being neurodiverse. And you know, it's completely OK with what your comfort zone is, and let us know if you don’t want to answer any of these questions. But I was wondering how in today's modern society, I mean, you know, when I was chatting to some of my older, like when I say older I mean much older friends, you know who are in their, honestly, they're from another decade, love them, they're from another, they're from another decade, from another century, you know, they had a very different experience growing up with being Neurodiverse. Especially when. And it was not as common it like when I say not as common. I mean diagnosis wasn't as common in girls as they were in boys. For example, how have you, how have you found being your own Neurodiverse in this climate? Do you think society is generally supportive as a whole or do you think there's a lot of work left to be done?
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Yeah, it's an interesting one. And it's especially interesting for me, I guess at a turning point now stepping away from university into the workforce kind of realm, it's a real shift. I'll get into that in a second. But if I go back to the beginning. I was yeah. All the women in my family are ADHD basically. But we didn't know until after me. I was the trigger point and then everyone else got diagnosed. But I was only fortunate that we had a family friend who was a doctor who spotted it in me essentially and managed to get it out. And really, I didn't know much about what that meant or what that condition was until I think later when I I got diagnosed in year 7. So I was quite early. It wasn't till I got a bit older that I really tried to explore the condition and for much of my life, I think. It really defined me like in a huge way like and and you know it had its negative impact along the way, but it also defined a lot of the positive parts of my personality. It's very intrinsic to me and you know, when I did get that diagnosis, it was great because I wasn't really ashamed of it anymore because I even though, you know, medical conditions have a stigma, something about being recognised for I guess the negative parts at least had some kind of relief because it wasn't me. It was ADHD. But as I got older. I don't know that didn't really fit as well like it was easy when I was young to say, oh, that's the ADHD side of me. But the ADHD side of me is all of me. So it's kind of hard to make that distinction. So yeah, it's been a complicated time, I think, stigma wise, I've been around a lot of great people. I think being around younger people especially, I'm not trying to be ageist. It's just there's a bit more of an acceptance nowadays. Of things like neurodivergence and especially at universities, you know there's a lot more of that culture. The stark change I've noticed is switching into the workforce. It's kind of like I feel like I've stepped back ten paces because at university everyone's talking about neurodivergence. Everyone's saying I'm getting diagnosed with this and that and whatever. And then you go into the workforce and you're asked to disclose disabilities and I genuinely for the one job I applied for, I didn't because I would have done and I did, and it got brought up in interviews and instead of mentioning it in like a sort of neutral sense, they were asking how my ADHD would affect the productivity for the company.
Georgie McColm
Hmm.
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
That's when I started to be like, OK, this is what the real world is like outside of uni. Like in terms of this, the stigma around things like that. I did work for like some companies for a short period of time that were, like, really, like, kind of, yeah, like young and hip and inclusive or whatever. That's how they tried to brand themselves. So they were all into it. But a lot of places are still quite backwards with that. So yeah, you pick and choose. I think the company that I'm entering into now is much more open to it, much more understanding, but it's a bit of a variety. So honestly, I think at the end of the day for me, it's been a journey of forgiveness for myself. Because yeah, it's very easy to respond to, like, external things, and it's kind of inevitable that you will. You'll, like, respond to school and, like people or your condition or whatever might hinder your productivity and, you know, like efficiency and things. But at the end of the day. For me, at least. The way I relate to my disability is I try and look at it as how it brings a difference to me and how yeah it defines me and how it's made me have a lot of success over the years as much as it hurts sometimes. But you know, it's about like being, you know, forgiving yourself for that and being like, well, that's just a part of me. But it's giving me this as well.
Speaker
Yeah.
Georgie McColm
It's made. It's made you who you are. You know you can't take Isabella from the ADHD just as much as the ADHD is part of Isabella.
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Exactly. And that's what I was sort of referring to before is I think some people, everyone's journey is different, right? But some people tend to relate to it through like, a. This is the ADHD me and this is the me that is separated from that and that's fine if that's how you approach it. My thing is just yeah, that no longer works for me. And yeah, so I think it's been a bit of a journey for me and I'm still learning. That's the thing about all of this is every day like I learn something new. I even learned something new about like, Oh my God, that's what it was like. I learned about time blindness the other day and how the area of the brain related to time is different in people with ADHD and I was like that makes so much sense. But you learn things every day, but I think, yeah, it's about kind of embracing all sides of it and. I think university and being part of communities like DNC have helped me so much with that because I don't feel ashamed about it. Like even if I'm not choosing it to disclose people that I know will prejudice me for it. I'm not ashamed. Like I'll talk about it openly with colleagues, like it's not something I hide and I really have to thank a lot of the community for that, for making me feel like I'm. I hate to use this word, so I'm gonna I'm putting in quotation marks, people listening, but normal, you know, like that this is part of the human experience. And yeah, it's not alone in this or something that something's broken. At least you know that's kind of how.
Georgie McColm
Definitely. And would you say that by moving forward, you know in the next next steps of your life after university with going into the workforce? Do you ever get worried or have you already started to mask? Cause I know a lot of people have found where they can feel a lot more freer at university, but when they do step into the workforce it can not be like, oh my gosh, this is such a different environment such a different space and they find that they have to shift almost not fully into a new person, but definitely have to mask a lot of aspects about themselves. Is that something that you worry about or something that you've already had to do, or is it something that you're trying to go, well, if I start masking, that's just that's just not me. I can't do that.
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
I mean, it's kind of complicated cause everything you say is also kind of true. At the same time. It's like I think this is the thing is like as most people, I think who are Neurodivergent will have experienced is like. At least of my age, I don't know what the next generation is going to be, but we've all masked for a lot of our life, like at some point it's just kind of how it works. And so it's kind of hard to say what is me and what isn't me, because even inside that mask is kind of familiar for me, but it is a bit like a different persona, so to speak. I definitely do it. I think I do it a lot less than I used to though, because I used to do it almost consistently and if I'm like I do it a lot less now. I think it's more selective though and I think that's where the key lies. I'm not saying it's good that I have to do it. I wish I didn't. I just think that the key is the control aspect. If you feel like you have to do it or like you know, there's this terrible pressure to do it and it's kind of a painful feeling then that's when it's a problem for me. It's almost like a choice out of convenience. I don't want to explain myself, so I'm just going to do it. You know what I mean? Like, for me, it's a control to protect myself and I don't do it when it becomes exhausting. That is a privilege, though, and I have to say that because a lot of people are in a different situation to me with their conditions. I mean this is not me trying to blow my own trumpet or anything, but I've always done well like in uni things. But behind the scenes is a totally different Isabella to what's on the surface like. I've always been like a relatively high achiever and done well in things, but behind the scenes I've had like breakdowns and meltdowns and all these things, but people don't see that. Right, so I'm quite good at working on the surface for others. You know for others there are other challenges that make that harder, but for my experience, look, it's a part of my reality and definitely going into the workforce, it's probably going to happen more. I hope to, to keep what I've got going. And I think everything I do, I always promote myself like on my resume. Make it very clear that I've been in like this role and other roles I make it clear. That I'm like I work and like I've have done a lot of things in disability care and I make it clear to employers that that is something I'm passionate about. So I don't hide that part of my identity. It's just more about, yeah, not having to answer difficult questions sometimes it’s a balance.
Georgie McColm
Definitely. Would you say that because I've, as I hate saying like I've met people, but I feel like disability is one of those complex issues where some people feel more comfortable being out very outward facing with I don't know what the correct terminology to use is here, but I I think you know what I mean. We've been very confident in telling a lot of people, whereas other people can feel a little bit apprehensive about it because I've met some people who are like, Oh well, I'm heavily involved in disability stuff and activism and whatnot. But then they have decided to conceal that on their resume because they are concerned about being judged by future employers and stuff. Have you faced any of this judgement or do you think that the workplace is changing where it's embraced a lot more?
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
I think it depends where you work. I know that sounds really mean, but I think it really does. Company culture is a big part of it and a lot of workplaces I've been in have been where, you know you, I don't know. People understand what I mean you immediately know when you're safe to disclose some. Sometimes it's just kind of an instinctual thing, other times not. I think, you know, weirdly enough some of the conditions that you see the most and things that the most common, I don't know if this is the right thing to say, but the most common, so to speak, the ones that stigmatised the most, I find things like ADHD even to an extent anxiety is like somewhat of something that I think gets accepted more. And when you bring things like depression into the picture, weirdly enough that gets stigmatised the most I found, like in practise, not in theory, but in practise. And I do question that because I think it's because things that have a very clearly defined medical label tend to get recognised more and like. Not that that doesn't have a medical label, but I think that there's this stigma around it that sort of is like I don't know how to. It's not medicated. It's not something you can just give a drug for and then therefore people see it as kind of this, this problem. And it's like, well, technically you can give, you know. But anyway, I've gone off track there but you. Know what I mean?
Georgie McColm
Yeah.
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Think there's this thing with like certain conditions. Maybe it's a sense of familiarity. Some people look at things like mental health issues and perhaps because they've experienced it themselves or something. I don't know what it is, but I find when I've gone through issues with that which are usually like. I mean, it's it. Come. You know, apples and oranges when you've got other neurodivergencies, you know, mental health comes into it a lot. I've had more trouble disclosing that than I have something like ADHD where I can just say Yep, that's a condition I have. Yep, that's that. I don't know what it is, and maybe it's more personal. So I think there's a bit of a weird disparity where people are OK with some things and not OK with others. And again the same for conditions that might be more physical disabilities, but the ones that aren't as visible those I know also like have a lot of trouble because people don't really understand. And people you know can't take it at face value. They think they have to understand what's going on and they can't perceive it. So they think it mustn't be there, you know. So I think it's condition dependent, but. Sorry what was the question again?
Georgie McColm
Don't worry. No, no, no. Honestly, I I've kind of forgotten the question as well, but I think it was a really great answer and I think this is like the perfect cue to wrap up the work section and I really appreciate all the answers that you've gone through with that, which I hope for a lot of students will find those really encouraging and stuff because it's good to know. Uh. What's what's going to happen in the future? I think a lot of people, especially when they come into university, are like, Oh my gosh, the university environment is so cool and so chill. What's gonna happen when I end up after university? So I really appreciate those insights. But I think maybe we could move on to or come back to what it's like to be neurodiverse at uni to kind of finish up. So if you had a time machine. And you could go back in time to 1st year Isabella straight out straight after COVID. What would you say to her with her surviving university as a first year?
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Ohh it's a big very loaded question.
Georgie McColm
Very loaded question.
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Oh. It's really hard because it's one of those questions where, dare I say, it's like if I change things where I've been any different, I think, you know, I did have a bit of a, I don't know how to pose a bit personal. I did have a bit of a like a breakdown in second year and I think the reason I had that was because despite working with all the conditions that I have. Despite getting supports and everything, I still had an unrelenting expectation of myself like I thought that just because I have these supports that I would perform exactly the same. And I think there's an element of. Like pre prepared compromise, I'm not saying like if you're someone who wishes to aim high and wishes to succeed. I'm not saying set your expectations lower. I'm just saying kind of, as I said before, be forgiving of yourself and allow room for failure, dare I say? I know that's a bit of a that can be defined in many ways, but allow room for a little bit of slack because the biggest thing that I suffered from as I would try and consider my conditions and things, I'd try and account for them and I'd try and work around that, but I would still end up setting really like harsh deadlines on myself and things that were like still kind of a bit rough and I didn't meet them. And then there comes the disappointment and stuff. So it's really about being forgiving of yourself and leaving wide girths. I'm a last minuter. I do things last minute if we're talking academic university life. My God. Like assignments done the night before. Thesis done in 2 weeks. That's me. But it's just like you do need to at least consider your options early and keep a balance with that. And keep yourself out there. Talk to people like I lock myself away a lot. But you need to keep in conversation with someone to keep your sanity and to keep yourself like present in the moment. Even if it's just one person, that's what I'd say my younger self is don't lock yourself away. Have at least one person where you're keeping updates so you know where you are in life. And yeah, be very forgiving of yourself because starting out in uni people have really big goals for themselves and they're so important to succeed that you don't want to lose yourself in the process. So it's important to be very forgiving. And yeah, allow yourself some slack because people act like you need to be out of a bachelors in three years and be top of your career by the 4th and the truth of the matter is you don't. I'm not in Med yet, but I know I'll get there. And it really doesn't matter like. Once you get out of you and you realise just how much people don't care how old you are or how long it's taking you to get there. So remember that.
Georgie McColm
Absolutely. And I think that's such an important message. I know so many first years that comes in, guns blazing, being like, Oh my gosh, when they get my degree in three years, I'm going to be out by the time I'm like 20, 21 and I'm going to be in her the biggest person ever and everything's going to go amazing. But sometimes stuff happens and it's great to you know, say to yourself that you can take that extra time and take that pressure off yourself. Which is really really useful. Would you also say that you have any other advice in terms of studying with neurodivergence? And I know that's very specific and it can be very independent too, but not independent. That's the wrong word. It can be very personal to a specific person and how they like to study and what tools that they can use to make their lives. Easier, but what did you find worked for you?
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
I have a strange way of studying. It's kind of a bit like odd and I can't do it in public because it's embarrassing, but OK, hold on, let me let me do the rundown. So I did a lot of research because I'm a scientist at heart. Anyway, I did a lot of research into study methods and I found a lot of things, but it's all trial and error. To be honest, I changed my study methods all throughout university, so it's about finding what works for you, but for me. with certain Neurodivergence like ADHD for example. I'm not sure how it works for everyone else. It's about activating all the senses at once, and so what I used. So, don't judge me is I used to get out my notes. I used to pace around the room to a beat and I used to read out what was on the page and then have to cover it and then read it again. But while I'm pacing. And reading it out to a certain beat.
Georgie McColm
I love that.
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
I also used to read things with a strange inflection. So that it would be more memorable rather than monotone, so like these are really weird ways of studying. But like if I had to memorise like formulas or certain things or this is this, that's how I do it and it's the only way that kept my brain active because just reading through stuff, and especially on a screen, my God, I can't. I don't know what it is, but I feel like it's an ADHD thing. It like screens are just the enemy. It just didn't go in the same way. And so, yeah, I did kill a few trees. I'm sorry. I try and make up for it in other ways, but I did print out a lot of my stuff. And yeah, doing things like that, like pacing around a room when you read your notes, you be, I mean, people listening. You think I'm weird, but try it because genuinely it kind of works like I've memorised like whole essays doing that. And I surprised myself with how much you can remember or like, even your brain if you do it in a strange way that makes it memorable.
Georgie McColm
Honestly, I I love that answer to be honest. You know so many people give. Ohh yeah, I just used flashcards or just used Quizlet used and I was just going with that and it kind of worked I guess. But I love this pacing around the work you're getting exercise, you're getting stuff done. I mean, more people should try it.
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Yeah, but like, I don't want anyone to see me doing. That's a problem. You kind of can't. I mean, I love studying at the library. This one, I mean, yeah, you do you. You go like you want if you want to study and do this at the library, no one's gonna stop you. They might think that you're doing some kind of recording, but yeah, definitely. I did that a lot, especially come crunch exam time. I just wanted to be at home in my pyjamas and I do this technique. So maybe help someone out there. Give it a go.
Georgie McColm
Absolutely. You never know. You never know because I think the more different study methods are out there, the more someone's gonna go. I might give that a go. I might try that. I might see if that works for me. So I think that's honestly a great tip.
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Thank you.
Georgie McColm
That's awesome. And I guess because this, you know, we're in Neurodiversity week and for some of our listeners who may be neurotypical, what would you like people who are neurotypical to know about neurodiversity? Neurodiversity. Sorry. Would you have anything in particular that you wish that neurotypicals just knew in general or any advice you want to give in terms of how to approach people who are neurodiverse?
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Well, in terms of, I'll start with what I want them to know. Bit of a topical one for what's happening right now. It's not what you see on TikTok. A lot of people suddenly think and this is not me trying to be hateful, but a lot of people… I think TikTokis a great platform for awareness and building community. But I've noticed a lot of people, a lot of misinformation as well, right. And especially I'm just I'm biassed with ADHD, but my God, Tiktok has so much misinformation about ADHD and people are saying that it's just like you struggle to remember, and you procrastinate. They're like I have ADHD. My God, everyone is. I'm like, mate like. Yeah, like I understand. But that's only just like a smidgen part of it. It's. I think it's just important to take things you see online like somewhat of a face value and value, the individual more and I guess I'm not trying to say that to be like you know, you can't question diagnoses and things, it's more about just being receptive when you're with an individual I guess. Don't like lessen their experience? I think some people try and relate to you and I think that's so well meaning and I think that's really nice of them, it does sometimes come across as a bit shallow though, so just let the experience you know. Let them talk about their experience. If they're talking about it with you and be open to discussions and ask questions, it's no way. I mean of saying you can't engage. I think that people should be less ashamed of asking questions because I think that's the problem is when you want to assume that you know or you want to know so badly but you're scared to ask a person who actually has it, you go online and you see these things and. It's just easier. Just talk to them in real life. I mean, some people may be different, but honestly, I'm never offended with any question like you could ask me something that other people consider offensive. I don't take it personally. I see it as someone trying to understand me better and I respect them greatly for that. So don't be so scared to just, like, talk about it, frankly. And yeah, I think engage with people in real life and and try and understand it that way. And if you are questioning whether you are neurodivergent or not again like come to D&C. Actually engage with people and get that information that knowledge and you know you'll learn a lot and even if you don't, you make some great friends along the way. So I think, yeah, that's my main thing. Was that a bit? I didn't. I didn't want to sound mean, but it's just. Something I've noticed a lot.
Georgie McColm
It wasn't. It wasn't mean. I think it's a great commentary on today's rampant misinformation. You know, I don't think it's just neurodiversity that's been affected. There are so many areas of misinformation that I think it's good for everyone to just. Not everything you see on screen is what is happening in your life, and I think it's just a good talking point regardless.
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
Yeah. We could write an essay on that, couldn't we?
Georgie McColm
Absolutely, we 100% could. And is there anything else you'd really like to say before we kind of wrap up the interview about neurodiversity or your experience or any kind of key message you want to nail home?
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
It's big. I don't know.
Georgie McColm
It's a big question. I believe in you. Big question.
Isabella Rogers-Headicar
What do we speak about today? First of all, come down to the and see have a chat before you even hesitate behind the screen. Come down and we're really not as scary as you think we are. And we have shortbread biscuits, so why would you wanna come? um yeah. And second of all, yeah, be forgiving to yourself. I'm not. Going to say. Love yourself? Like? No way. I feel like it wants that so much, but I think it's more important to be forgive yourself and just remember that each of you bring something that no one else can. And that's a large part of why we've been successful on this planet is a lot of neurodivergent people, as well as everyone else. So you're a part of that picture. And remember that? Yeah.
Georgie McColm
Great. Thank you so much. And Charlotte, is there anything else you wanted to add to finish off this interview?
Charlotte Sutton
Come see us at the DNC. If I'm not in the office, my email is on the door. If you need anything, always, always send us an email, carrier pigeon, I don't care what it is. Just reach out. Our entire job is to support students and advocate for students. So please ask for help we can't fix. We can't help with things if we don't. Know about them, so yeah.
Georgie McColm
Absolutely. Well, thank you everybody so much for listening in and a massive thank you to both Isabella and Charlotte for coming on to speak for neurodiversity week. We really appreciate it. Don't forget you can learn more about DNC on their socials. They have an Instagram and a Facebook Charlotte gonna tell people where people can find you?
Charlotte Sutton
Yes, we are at @MSAdisabilities, very simple. We have a LinkTree. The email is MSA- disabilities@monash so send an email if you need us.
Georgie McColm
So plenty of plenty of things you can go and do DNC run tons of events and you can also find Radio Monash on Instagram, Facebook with just @Radio Monash. Thank you so much to both Isabella and Charlotte once again for coming on to speak and I hope everybody has a wonderful Neurodiversity week. Thank you so much.
